Lucky B@star#s

[Duttyman]

<img src="http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/Duttyman_photos/lexus_is-f_laguna_seca_450.jpg" height="338" width="450" />

So if you didn't know, the IS-F has been a keen Streetseen point of interest. Following in that spirit, here again is breaking news from the field. Some blessed Club Lexus members were presented with IS-Fs fresh from Japan and allowed to put the machines through their paces. The result was sheer ecstasy. According to one member, " This car is fantastic. Even with the heavier front weight bias of the V8, the overall balance and handling exceeds the standard IS250/350." That is a loaded statement Street fans, loaded!<!--more-->

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<img src="http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/Duttyman_photos/P8153762-1.jpg" height="354" width="474" />

<img src="http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w47/Duttyman_photos/P8154087.jpg" height="352" width="471" />

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[De O]

Lucky mother ____s :mad:

[Tekknikal]

gangsta :cool:

[Tekknikal]

IS-F Video:

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[Tekknikal]

my take on the IS-F:

definitely a competitor in the $45-65k performance car segment
what it may lack in driving dynamics (vs M3) or performance (vs GT-R) it may make up for in Lexus refinement.

in my view i think it should sell at a discount to the M3 because most in the market would probably not consider the IS-F very seriously otherwise. on that note if I were lexus, and i could get away with it- i'd price it at $49k- with the 4 handle being a great attention getter.

like the introduction of the LS400, such aggressive pricing would be a great way to make inroads into a market that wasn't really looking for this entry. because the car is good, the pricing strategy would work well and people would pay very close attention next time around. before long, you could command a premium and the market will be ok with it (as lexus is increasingly doing today).

rumors suggest the production run to be 1500 units/yr. That's like lexus building one IS-F for every 20 IS2/350s. I think this is way off. I cant see the project being very successful if done in that form... it doesn't make much business sense to me especially since demand is much higher and Toyota is all about making money (they've killed all their other coupes for instance). I would expect Lexus to aim for 5k+ units/yr... with the end result being that if you want an IS-F you can get one, within a year, at MSRP.

I think the last part (@msrp) is significant and I stand by it because most of the attention in this segment will be drawn to the M3, GT-R, and C63 AMG. Almost everyone is taking a wait-and-see approach with the IS-F, whereas I expect the M3 and GT-R to be completely sold out- for months- before the first ones hit dealers. That's not because the IS-F isn't a great car, instead it's because the market isn't really looking for it/expecting it right now.

Regarding power, lexus has only confirmed 400+hp. Lexus fans @ clublexus are looking for 430+ hp. Others closer to 400. I agree with the latter crowd, and I think rumors of 415hp (from Lexus IS-F product representatives no less) will pan out to be fairly accurate.

Is that a bad thing? no. Obviously, if performance is your #1 goal and you can accept nothing less, you're looking at the wrong car. Considering that the M3 has about that much power, and the IS-F has an additional gear (with what promises to be a fairly quick transmission) I think the IS-F will be competitive with the benchmark of the segment... and for the market, I think that will be enough.

Other questions remain though: how heavy is the car? Weight is a problem because it works against everything: acceleration, grip, ride quality, fuel economy, balance, fun, etc. This question is amplified by the fact that the weight will be concentrated toward the front and also due to the fact that so much weight will need to be dedicated towards refinement. I am, however, optimistic that it will remain relatively in check... although I admit I am tempted to view the Lexus entry to this segment like their first gen IS entry...
on the balance though, I think the new IS platform is a very good one, and based on what I've read so far and know of Toyota I am confident that the IS-F will hold its own... and will bet that although it won't be as dynamic as the M3, it will offer excellent performance and will not be far off on the performance front.

I see the best parts about the new IS being the refinement, luxury, and dealer network... this is what Lexus has to bring to the segment. No one does it better. I expect the performance to be close and the dynamic nature to be there albeit a little more distant, but really I see a lot of potential on the refinement front. Obviously it won't appeal to everyone, and not even most, as these buyers place large premiums on performacne and dynamics... however I do expect the market to exist.

Over the long term, I think this has good implications for future Lexus products. Future Lexus platforms will be more and more performance oriented to allow for better F cars. With this in mind, I will go so far as to say Mercedes-Benz should be very concerned. BMW however, has the CSL that I really feel they will need to lean heavily on... beyond just improving their dealer network. For Lexus, I think the IS-F will be a great car and an amazing value if the price starts with a 4. At $55k and up, you should really want it, but for those who do (and you'll likely know who you are).. you should be very satisfied...

[Duttyman]

:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: I am not going to comment on the rest -- it's too painful but as far as the video goes --:bowdown: :cry:

[Tekknikal]

$49k probably wasnt very doable (hence the 'if i could get away with it')...i was right on everything else (in bold).

my take on the IS-F:

definitely a competitor in the $45-65k performance car segment
what it may lack in driving dynamics (vs M3) or performance (vs GT-R) it may make up for in Lexus refinement.

in my view i think it should sell at a discount to the M3 because most in the market would probably not consider the IS-F very seriously otherwise. on that note if I were lexus, and i could get away with it- i'd price it at $49k- with the 4 handle being a great attention getter.

like the introduction of the LS400, such aggressive pricing would be a great way to make inroads into a market that wasn't really looking for this entry. because the car is good, the pricing strategy would work well and people would pay very close attention next time around. before long, you could command a premium and the market will be ok with it (as lexus is increasingly doing today).

rumors suggest the production run to be 1500 units/yr. That's like lexus building one IS-F for every 20 IS2/350s. I think this is way off. I cant see the project being very successful if done in that form... it doesn't make much business sense to me especially since demand is much higher and Toyota is all about making money (they've killed all their other coupes for instance). I would expect Lexus to aim for 5k+ units/yr... with the end result being that if you want an IS-F you can get one, within a year, at MSRP.

I think the last part (@msrp) is significant and I stand by it because most of the attention in this segment will be drawn to the M3, GT-R, and C63 AMG. Almost everyone is taking a wait-and-see approach with the IS-F, whereas I expect the M3 and GT-R to be completely sold out- for months- before the first ones hit dealers. That's not because the IS-F isn't a great car, instead it's because the market isn't really looking for it/expecting it right now.

Regarding power, lexus has only confirmed 400+hp. Lexus fans @ clublexus are looking for 430+ hp. Others closer to 400. I agree with the latter crowd, and I think rumors of 415hp (from Lexus IS-F product representatives no less) will pan out to be fairly accurate.

Is that a bad thing? no. Obviously, if performance is your #1 goal and you can accept nothing less, you're looking at the wrong car. Considering that the M3 has about that much power, and the IS-F has an additional gear (with what promises to be a fairly quick transmission) I think the IS-F will be competitive with the benchmark of the segment... and for the market, I think that will be enough.

Other questions remain though: how heavy is the car? Weight is a problem because it works against everything: acceleration, grip, ride quality, fuel economy, balance, fun, etc. This question is amplified by the fact that the weight will be concentrated toward the front and also due to the fact that so much weight will need to be dedicated towards refinement. I am, however, optimistic that it will remain relatively in check... although I admit I am tempted to view the Lexus entry to this segment like their first gen IS entry...
on the balance though, I think the new IS platform is a very good one, and based on what I've read so far and know of Toyota I am confident that the IS-F will hold its own... and will bet that although it won't be as dynamic as the M3, it will offer excellent performance and will not be far off on the performance front.

I see the best parts about the new IS being the refinement, luxury, and dealer network... this is what Lexus has to bring to the segment. No one does it better. I expect the performance to be close and the dynamic nature to be there albeit a little more distant, but really I see a lot of potential on the refinement front. Obviously it won't appeal to everyone, and not even most, as these buyers place large premiums on performacne and dynamics... however I do expect the market to exist.

Over the long term, I think this has good implications for future Lexus products. Future Lexus platforms will be more and more performance oriented to allow for better F cars. With this in mind, I will go so far as to say Mercedes-Benz should be very concerned. BMW however, has the CSL that I really feel they will need to lean heavily on... beyond just improving their dealer network. For Lexus, I think the IS-F will be a great car and an amazing value if the price starts with a 4. At $55k and up, you should really want it, but for those who do (and you'll likely know who you are).. you should be very satisfied...

want to know what's next? here you go:

1. is-f will do OK against M3 performance wise. it'll be close, edge going to m3 especially after the new m-dct transmission comes out.
2. sales won't destroy the m3 per se, but the car will meet lexus's (conservative) expectations. car will do well in lexus eyes. expect the F program to stay. like the borg, this is only the beginning for lexus.
3. the euro vs asia field will split to a 2 on 2 for the most part. the is-f vs m3 vs s/rs, c63amg vs gt-r vs vette:

->the gt-r will also set a new overall benchmark.
->the c63amg will do ok, especially among german fans... but it wont have the effect that the gt-r has, as most in the m3 and is-f communities are forecasting.
->the gt-r wont exist in m3/is-f discussion, gt-r owners wont care. it will be a unique bubble in the industry. not unlike what c6z06 owners currently face.
->is-f and m3 owners will compete a lot against each other. we're only seeing the beginning
->the japanese aftermarket will pull through for lexus owners in a big way, most in the lexus community will be indifferent.
->german cars will benefit more and more from japanese tuning
->the 335i will be the silent underdog that everyone is sleeping on, yet will surprise many a is-f and m3 on the street.

you heard it here first.

[Tekknikal]

ok so i've been reading more about this car and thinking it over.

additional thoughts:

1 the more info we get the more i think the is-f will also set the important benchmark of being refined and reliable, and without major issue. this is something that the m3 has had trouble with. you just wont have to really worry about it with the is-f.

2 the isf will have more 'bang for the buck' tunability vs the m3.

3 lexus will again set a new standard for refinement. This is really important. it is a major problem for the industry. toyota probably wanted to have a sports car but lexus was much, much better positioned. see how nissan is having to invest so much into the gt-r to setup 160 performance centers in japan? think about the work nissan will have to do here. to them and what they want to do its worth it. But they have other cars that will benefit. Although Toyota is after something different, the same general issue remains- you have to make sure the customers are happy and the cars are kept to spec. Lexus already has a dealer network that's accustomed to the strive for perfection. they also have customers willing to pay a premium. so lexus can execute this. Perhaps more importantly, Toyota wanted to build an exotic, the LF-A. As a result, it made sense to do both under the same brand and start the F program one time and be done.

BTW the LF-A is another car that is being underrated but will in fact be epic- you heard it here first

4 Putting all of this another way: Don't be surprised when the F cars become more unique and expand, and become a real challenger to the market....no matter what happens with this IS-F. Why? Because all indications are that the IS-F is really good. It'll sell.


Overall I'm excited about the car because it's something new. And good. And the company cares. They're working with people online and off.

Lexus does some things that are incredible... for instance, at some public car shows if you show them your Lexus key they'll let you relax in a special area and give drinks etc. this kind of thing will go a long way. Some think Toyota's forgotten how to build a sports car. I think we'll see that's not true. It won't be a Supra, but that's not a bad thing.

To wrap up my opinion, I'll say this:
If I were in the $40-60k segment this is where I'd start looking. Based on my experience with the IS250, this will be something special.